Rhythmism.comQ&A with Karl Hyde of Underworld
by rhythmism
Thursday, Oct 21st 2010, 11:07 AM
Karl Hyde and Rick Smith of Underworld are part of electronic music lore. As a group, they came to define the big sound of late 1990's hit electronic dance music, yet before the days of 'Born Slippy' were 15 years of trials and experimentation, multiple band members come and gone, darkness, redemption, and all the gooey goodies that, ideally, come together to form inspiration and synthesize vision.
Recently, the duo dropped a new album. Barking is unabashedly happy and optimistic, categorically different from earlier work in both veneer and substance. The lyrics are inspired, and borderline spiritual, as is Karl Hyde, who we recently had the pleasure of interviewing.
As we talked with Karl, a picture began to emerge of a man who has found a sort of redemption. A picture also emerged of an incredible friendship, more aptly described as kinship, that has endured much stress and friction yet like the folding of metal, has come out stronger in the end.
Underworld also performed "Always Loved a Film" on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon recently, one of the many hits off the new album. That video is included below for you to check out.
Photo credit: Perou
To start, let’s talk about the beginnings of Underworld: when do you see the group as having its true beginning?
I think it started in about 1980. Rick and I met, and started working together. And that was it really, I think the seed was sown then. We had a mutual passion for particular types of music, and over the years we managed to get rid of all the other kinds of music that were getting in the way - the music in all the bands that we were in - and hone it down to something that was honest. That took a long time to do.
So you purely base it around when you two met, versus when the official title came about?
Yea, I wouldn’t have said that originally, but something happened back then in the very first band that we were in, and I realized that I was meant to be working with this guy. That’s the way its been every since. There’s been a magic, and a friction, and a wonderment, and inspiration, and a pain in the ass (laughs) ya know, for 30 years. But that’s what’s kept it fresh and alive, its come in turns and its meant that its never been boring.
So lots of twists and turns, talk about the influence of having had so many past members come and go.
It’s been weird, because for many years we thought of ourselves as a traditional group, but it was apparent that we were hiding this other group inside of us. Every time we got dropped by a record company Rick and I would go back to our bedsits, or our flats, or wherever we could find a room, and we would sit there and make this electronic music. We didn’t have a band, but we had a drum machine, and a little four track, and a couple of synths and a guitar, that was what we loved. We’d meet these lovely musicians who were really talented, and the music would loose itself in this sort of generosity of openness, and as much as we enjoyed playing with them, and they were great players, and good friends, it was always kind of burying the real truth, what Rick and I were really into.
And that applies to Alfie (Thomas) and John (Warwicker), the guys back in the 80’s, or Darren Emerson and some of the more recent people as well?
John Warrick has been a member of mine and Rick’s family since the beginning, so John is the exception to that, he understands what is going on, and a friend, and a confidant, and has been since day one, so he is the real exception.
I think there was an opportunity for the band with Darren Emerson to still be together, had Darren chosen to do that. Having said that, Rick and I went off on a journey after that that was to be the making of our friendship.
Talk about how that relationship has evolved over the years, you and Rick.
(Laughs) That’s a bizarre relationship, ya know? In the sense that I honestly don’t know how Rick has had the strength to put up with me, and that’s the truth! We’re quite different people, and were quite similar people. The longer that we stay together our differences have made way for crossing over and learning a lot of each others ways and points of view, so things we didn’t use to do we do know because we picked it up off the other one. We’ve come to a kind of quiet acceptance that this guys my best mate, and there is something magic that goes on when we make things and exchange ideas.
So applied to when you’re creating your music, talk about you two in the studio a bit.
I really listen to Rick. He has an attention to detail, and a care, and an understanding of the people that he works with that gets the best out of them. And I like the challenges he presents. On this album (Barking), for the first time in 30 years there was “sing it again.” “What?” “Sing it again.” Normally its like the first take, and that its mate, you make something out of that Rick! This time he was pushing me more - can we change the melody, can you alter the lyrics. Sometimes we would go back to the original take and say that’s the one, but I love the game playing, we grew up around the philosophies of Brian Eno, and pushing people beyond what they thought they could achieve and going on a journey. Rick is great at that, that’s one of the things that I love about him.
So now you have a more disciplined approach, versus a track like Born Slippy, one of your most famous songs, that was recorded in one take.
That vocal was, yea. It was, although there is a verse missing that no one ever heard (laughs).
So tell me about that!
Strange, ya know, Rick chopped it out, said “I think it sounds better.” I’ve always trusted him, Rick has chopped my words out for years, dropped words out, and it has always sounded closer to the truth of what I was trying to say when he has done that. And he took this verse out, and I thought oh that’s weird, but its Rick, and I go back now and listen to it and I go “oh, that’s bad, Im really glad that’s not in there (laughs).
So a bit more about the Born Slippy, the only part that mentions any specifics is “going back to Romford” – is that about Darren Emerson, who grew up there, or all of your experiences living there?
No, its about all of us, its where we all lived for a long time. South Essex is a fantastic, dynamic place, the people there are very positive. They are the second and third and fourth generation that were moved out during the blitz, when the east of London was bombed to bits, and whole communities were decimated. There is this fantastic spirit that is out there, and a sense that its going to be okay. No matter what, its going to be okay, its going to be okay. Its a great energy to be around.
You just quoted from ‘Skribble’, the first single off the new album, is that where the influence for that song comes from?
No, that’s more of a spiritual song in a way. That’s me talking about my life now, as opposed to how my life used to be. I’m walking in the light rather than the dark. Rick was always constantly trying to find something uplifting after I would come back from drudging the streets for poetry. That’s why he introduced those uplifting chords to ‘Born Slippy’. A lot of my words now are about a much different experience of life. My lyrics have always been autobiographical, they have always been about journeys through cities, and the kinds of things I used to pick up on, and reflect upon, and are attracted to.
Yea, the whole new album has a very positive tone - its uplifting music, especially Skribble. So go into your what inspires your lyrics a bit more, is it generally tangible things, like people and cities, or more emotional?
Now I’m attracted to positive people, positive situations, and a lot of the tracks on this album were written and developed in front of live audiences as we toured the world with the last one (album). The consequence of that was they were affected by the time and place that we were on stage. The music we were writing was for an audience that had come to celebrate, so it had to be about that. As we developed the songs, and took them back out on the road, and kept doing that for like 2 or 3 years, it moved more towards an act of celebration rather than the internal darker spaces that I used to inhabit.
So speaking about the live show in general right now, how has your dynamic on stage developed over the years?
Its still very physical, although the improvisations tend not to go on for like 30 or 40 minutes now (laughs) as they sometimes did in the early days, back when a 90 minute set would only have like 4 tunes in it. That’s kinda different now, but that’s out of choice.
The dynamics on stage are far more physical for me now. I just can’t help it. As soon as I hear that music, and I see all those faces, and I connect with the energy I just have to kick off and improvise these movements. That’s what I do: I translate the music into physical shapes and pick up on what the audience is doing. In some ways probably a lot more on this tour than I have been for twenty years. Having said that, the rhythm section is still the boss. I’m working for the rhythm section (laughs).
Photo Credit: Perou
So what are you guys using on stage specifically?
Wow, um, we’ve got a huge Midas mixing board, two Gibson Les Pauls, ancient Fender Combos, some old vocoders, four, five, six Macintoshes, racks of outboard effects, various microphones, some CD players that we use to spin in effects and spoken word. Then we’ve got lots of monitoring, because we mix our own monitors, and have done for twenty years now. We carry with us our own sub-bass, mids and highs - as our backline a Funktion One sound system on stage, which has always been part of our live kit. That’s quite a lot of it.
So that’s not exactly a computer with Ableton is it?
(Laughs) Exactly! Ya know it would be a lot easier if it was, maybe we should do the laptop and a microphone tour next time.
You’re coming through New York soon, what do you think about when coming to playing in the city?
New York is a very intense place for me, this is where all my lyrics used to start, for all of Dubnobasswithmyheadman and Second Toughest In The Infants. I would just walk the streets. It’s just such an exciting… No, it’s the most exciting place in the world to write lyrics. I love writing in all cities, but in New York it just comes out of the fabric of the city, and I actually have to kind of leave there holding my head, because its so intense. So I love coming to New York because of that sort of intensity of information that I get.
Its where a lot of things that I’m really passionate about come from, whether it’s the abstract expressionists, Warhol’s factory, CBGB, The Ramones, all sorts of stuff. Going there is like going to find the Holy Grail for me, and its kinda like coming back to the base camp. I cant even really express it well enough. Whenever we come back to play I’m like, my god, we are playing in New York. I still think that, like I was when I was a kid coming there going, oh my god, we’re here, I’ve seen this place on telly! It still blows me away. We come there and its like we are bringing back this energy that we have learned from this city (London), are re-presenting it with this sort of English/Essex mentality, and were kinda bringing it home.
Its been a great pleasure talking with you Karl, thanks very much for your time.
Great, thank you for support man, thanks very much.
Recently, the duo dropped a new album. Barking is unabashedly happy and optimistic, categorically different from earlier work in both veneer and substance. The lyrics are inspired, and borderline spiritual, as is Karl Hyde, who we recently had the pleasure of interviewing.
As we talked with Karl, a picture began to emerge of a man who has found a sort of redemption. A picture also emerged of an incredible friendship, more aptly described as kinship, that has endured much stress and friction yet like the folding of metal, has come out stronger in the end.
Underworld also performed "Always Loved a Film" on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon recently, one of the many hits off the new album. That video is included below for you to check out.
Photo credit: Perou
To start, let’s talk about the beginnings of Underworld: when do you see the group as having its true beginning?
I think it started in about 1980. Rick and I met, and started working together. And that was it really, I think the seed was sown then. We had a mutual passion for particular types of music, and over the years we managed to get rid of all the other kinds of music that were getting in the way - the music in all the bands that we were in - and hone it down to something that was honest. That took a long time to do.
So you purely base it around when you two met, versus when the official title came about?
Yea, I wouldn’t have said that originally, but something happened back then in the very first band that we were in, and I realized that I was meant to be working with this guy. That’s the way its been every since. There’s been a magic, and a friction, and a wonderment, and inspiration, and a pain in the ass (laughs) ya know, for 30 years. But that’s what’s kept it fresh and alive, its come in turns and its meant that its never been boring.
So lots of twists and turns, talk about the influence of having had so many past members come and go.
It’s been weird, because for many years we thought of ourselves as a traditional group, but it was apparent that we were hiding this other group inside of us. Every time we got dropped by a record company Rick and I would go back to our bedsits, or our flats, or wherever we could find a room, and we would sit there and make this electronic music. We didn’t have a band, but we had a drum machine, and a little four track, and a couple of synths and a guitar, that was what we loved. We’d meet these lovely musicians who were really talented, and the music would loose itself in this sort of generosity of openness, and as much as we enjoyed playing with them, and they were great players, and good friends, it was always kind of burying the real truth, what Rick and I were really into.
And that applies to Alfie (Thomas) and John (Warwicker), the guys back in the 80’s, or Darren Emerson and some of the more recent people as well?
John Warrick has been a member of mine and Rick’s family since the beginning, so John is the exception to that, he understands what is going on, and a friend, and a confidant, and has been since day one, so he is the real exception.
I think there was an opportunity for the band with Darren Emerson to still be together, had Darren chosen to do that. Having said that, Rick and I went off on a journey after that that was to be the making of our friendship.
Talk about how that relationship has evolved over the years, you and Rick.
(Laughs) That’s a bizarre relationship, ya know? In the sense that I honestly don’t know how Rick has had the strength to put up with me, and that’s the truth! We’re quite different people, and were quite similar people. The longer that we stay together our differences have made way for crossing over and learning a lot of each others ways and points of view, so things we didn’t use to do we do know because we picked it up off the other one. We’ve come to a kind of quiet acceptance that this guys my best mate, and there is something magic that goes on when we make things and exchange ideas.
So applied to when you’re creating your music, talk about you two in the studio a bit.
I really listen to Rick. He has an attention to detail, and a care, and an understanding of the people that he works with that gets the best out of them. And I like the challenges he presents. On this album (Barking), for the first time in 30 years there was “sing it again.” “What?” “Sing it again.” Normally its like the first take, and that its mate, you make something out of that Rick! This time he was pushing me more - can we change the melody, can you alter the lyrics. Sometimes we would go back to the original take and say that’s the one, but I love the game playing, we grew up around the philosophies of Brian Eno, and pushing people beyond what they thought they could achieve and going on a journey. Rick is great at that, that’s one of the things that I love about him.
So now you have a more disciplined approach, versus a track like Born Slippy, one of your most famous songs, that was recorded in one take.
That vocal was, yea. It was, although there is a verse missing that no one ever heard (laughs).
So tell me about that!
Strange, ya know, Rick chopped it out, said “I think it sounds better.” I’ve always trusted him, Rick has chopped my words out for years, dropped words out, and it has always sounded closer to the truth of what I was trying to say when he has done that. And he took this verse out, and I thought oh that’s weird, but its Rick, and I go back now and listen to it and I go “oh, that’s bad, Im really glad that’s not in there (laughs).
So a bit more about the Born Slippy, the only part that mentions any specifics is “going back to Romford” – is that about Darren Emerson, who grew up there, or all of your experiences living there?
No, its about all of us, its where we all lived for a long time. South Essex is a fantastic, dynamic place, the people there are very positive. They are the second and third and fourth generation that were moved out during the blitz, when the east of London was bombed to bits, and whole communities were decimated. There is this fantastic spirit that is out there, and a sense that its going to be okay. No matter what, its going to be okay, its going to be okay. Its a great energy to be around.
You just quoted from ‘Skribble’, the first single off the new album, is that where the influence for that song comes from?
No, that’s more of a spiritual song in a way. That’s me talking about my life now, as opposed to how my life used to be. I’m walking in the light rather than the dark. Rick was always constantly trying to find something uplifting after I would come back from drudging the streets for poetry. That’s why he introduced those uplifting chords to ‘Born Slippy’. A lot of my words now are about a much different experience of life. My lyrics have always been autobiographical, they have always been about journeys through cities, and the kinds of things I used to pick up on, and reflect upon, and are attracted to.
Yea, the whole new album has a very positive tone - its uplifting music, especially Skribble. So go into your what inspires your lyrics a bit more, is it generally tangible things, like people and cities, or more emotional?
Now I’m attracted to positive people, positive situations, and a lot of the tracks on this album were written and developed in front of live audiences as we toured the world with the last one (album). The consequence of that was they were affected by the time and place that we were on stage. The music we were writing was for an audience that had come to celebrate, so it had to be about that. As we developed the songs, and took them back out on the road, and kept doing that for like 2 or 3 years, it moved more towards an act of celebration rather than the internal darker spaces that I used to inhabit.
So speaking about the live show in general right now, how has your dynamic on stage developed over the years?
Its still very physical, although the improvisations tend not to go on for like 30 or 40 minutes now (laughs) as they sometimes did in the early days, back when a 90 minute set would only have like 4 tunes in it. That’s kinda different now, but that’s out of choice.
The dynamics on stage are far more physical for me now. I just can’t help it. As soon as I hear that music, and I see all those faces, and I connect with the energy I just have to kick off and improvise these movements. That’s what I do: I translate the music into physical shapes and pick up on what the audience is doing. In some ways probably a lot more on this tour than I have been for twenty years. Having said that, the rhythm section is still the boss. I’m working for the rhythm section (laughs).
Photo Credit: Perou
So what are you guys using on stage specifically?
Wow, um, we’ve got a huge Midas mixing board, two Gibson Les Pauls, ancient Fender Combos, some old vocoders, four, five, six Macintoshes, racks of outboard effects, various microphones, some CD players that we use to spin in effects and spoken word. Then we’ve got lots of monitoring, because we mix our own monitors, and have done for twenty years now. We carry with us our own sub-bass, mids and highs - as our backline a Funktion One sound system on stage, which has always been part of our live kit. That’s quite a lot of it.
So that’s not exactly a computer with Ableton is it?
(Laughs) Exactly! Ya know it would be a lot easier if it was, maybe we should do the laptop and a microphone tour next time.
You’re coming through New York soon, what do you think about when coming to playing in the city?
New York is a very intense place for me, this is where all my lyrics used to start, for all of Dubnobasswithmyheadman and Second Toughest In The Infants. I would just walk the streets. It’s just such an exciting… No, it’s the most exciting place in the world to write lyrics. I love writing in all cities, but in New York it just comes out of the fabric of the city, and I actually have to kind of leave there holding my head, because its so intense. So I love coming to New York because of that sort of intensity of information that I get.
Its where a lot of things that I’m really passionate about come from, whether it’s the abstract expressionists, Warhol’s factory, CBGB, The Ramones, all sorts of stuff. Going there is like going to find the Holy Grail for me, and its kinda like coming back to the base camp. I cant even really express it well enough. Whenever we come back to play I’m like, my god, we are playing in New York. I still think that, like I was when I was a kid coming there going, oh my god, we’re here, I’ve seen this place on telly! It still blows me away. We come there and its like we are bringing back this energy that we have learned from this city (London), are re-presenting it with this sort of English/Essex mentality, and were kinda bringing it home.
Its been a great pleasure talking with you Karl, thanks very much for your time.
Great, thank you for support man, thanks very much.
