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doubledip

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 09:36 AM #1 George Soros Two-Page Open Letter/Ad in Today's WSJ
Not sure if any of you saw this in the main section of today's WSJ... yes, he's promoting a book -- interesting read nonetheless.


WHY WE MUST NOT RE-ELECT PRESIDENT BUSH
A personal message from George Soros


This is the most important election of my lifetime. I have never been heavily involved in partisan politics but these are not normal times. President Bush is endangering our safety, hurting our vital interests and undermining American values. That is why I am sending you this message. I have been demonized by the Bush campaign but I hope you will give me a hearing.

President Bush ran on the platform of a "humble" foreign policy in 2000. If we re-elect him now, we endorse the Bush doctrine of preemptive action and the invasion of Iraq, and we will have to live with the consequences. As I shall try to show, we are facing a vicious circle of escalating violence with no end in sight. But if we repudiate the Bush policies at the polls, we shall have a better chance to regain the respect and support of the world and to break the vicious circle.

I grew up in Hungary, lived through fascism and the Holocaust, and then had a foretaste of communism. I learned at an early age how important it is what kind of government prevails. I chose America as my home because I value freedom and democracy, civil liberties and an open society.

When I had made more money than I needed for myself and my family, I set up a foundation to promote the values and principles of a free and open society. I started in South Africa in 1979 and established a foundation in my native country, Hungary, in 1984 when it was still under communist rule. China, Poland and the Soviet Union followed in 1987. After the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, I established foundations in practically all the countries of the former Soviet empire and later in other parts of the world and in the United States. These foundations today spend about 450 million dollars a year to promote democracy and open society around the world.

When George W. Bush was elected president, and particularly after September 11, I saw that the values and principles of open society needed to be defended at home. September 11 led to a suspension of the critical process so essential to a democracy - a full and fair discussion of the issues. President Bush silenced all criticism by calling it unpatriotic. When he said that "either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists," I heard alarm bells ringing. I am afraid that he is leading us in a very dangerous direction. We are losing the values that have made America great.

The destruction of the twin towers of the World Trade Center was such a horrendous event that it required a strong response. But the President committed a fundamental error in thinking: the fact that the terrorists are manifestly evil does not make whatever counter-actions we take automatically good. What we do to combat terrorism may also be wrong. Recognizing that we may be wrong is the foundation of an open society. President Bush admits no doubt and does not base his decisions on a careful weighing of reality. For 18 months after 9/11 he managed to suppress all dissent. That is how he could lead the nation so far in the wrong direction.

President Bush inadvertently played right into the hands of bin Laden. The invasion of Afghanistan was justified: that was where bin Laden lived and al Qaeda had its training camps. The invasion of Iraq was not similarly justified. It was President Bush's unintended gift to bin Laden.

War and occupation create innocent victims. We count the body bags of American soldiers; there have been more than 1000 in Iraq. The rest of the world also looks at the Iraqis who get killed daily. There have been 20 times more. Some were trying to kill our soldiers; far too many were totally innocent, including many women and children. Every innocent death helps the terrorists' cause by stirring anger against America and bringing them potential recruits.

Immediately after 9/11 there was a spontaneous outpouring of sympathy for us worldwide. It has given way to an equally widespread resentment. There are many more people willing to risk their lives to kill Americans than there were on September 11 and our security, far from improving as President Bush claims, is deteriorating. I am afraid that we have entered a vicious circle of escalating violence where our fears and their rage feed on each other. It is not a process that is likely to end any time soon. If we re-elect President Bush we are telling the world that we approve his policies - and we shall be at war for a long time to come.

I realize that what I am saying is bound to be unpopular. We are in the grip of a collective misconception induced by the trauma of 9/11, and fostered by the Bush administration. No politician could say it and hope to get elected. That is why I feel obliged to speak out. There is a widespread belief that President Bush is making us safe. The opposite is true. President Bush failed to finish off bin Laden when he was cornered in Afghanistan because he was gearing up to attack Iraq. And the invasion of Iraq bred more people willing to risk their lives against Americans than we are able to kill - generating the vicious circle I am talking about.

President Bush likes to insist that the terrorists hate us for what we are - a freedom loving people - not what we do. Well, he is wrong on that. He also claims that the torture scenes at Abu Graib prison were the work of a few bad apples. He is wrong on that too. They were part of a system of dealing with detainees put in place by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and our troops in Iraq are paying the price.

How could President Bush convince people that he is good for our security, better than John Kerry? By building on the fears generated by the collapse of the twin towers and fostering a sense of danger. At a time of peril, people rally around the flag and President Bush has exploited this. His campaign is based on the assumption that people do not really care about the truth and they will believe practically anything if it is repeated often enough, particularly by a President at a time of war. There must be something wrong with us if we fall for it. For instance, some 40% of the people still believe that Saddam Hussein was connected with 9/11 - although it is now definitely established by the 9/11 Commission, set up by the President and chaired by a Republican, that there was no connection. I want to shout from the roof tops: "Wake up America. Don't you realize that we are being misled?"

President Bush has used 9/11 to further his own agenda which has very little to do with fighting terrorism. There was an influential group within the Bush administration led by Vice President Dick Cheney that was itching to invade Iraq long before 9/11. The terrorist attack gave them their chance. If you need a tangible proof why President Bush does not deserve to be re-elected, consider Iraq.

The war in Iraq was misconceived from start to finish -- if it has a finish. It is a war of choice, not necessity, in spite of what President Bush says. The arms inspections and sanctions were working. In response to American pressure, the United Nations had finally agreed on a strong stand. As long as the inspectors were on the ground, Saddam Hussein could not possibly pose a threat to our security. We could have declared victory but President Bush insisted on going to war.

We went to war on false pretences. The real reasons for going into Iraq have not been revealed to this day. The weapons of mass destruction could not be found, and the connection with al Qaeda could not be established. President Bush then claimed that we went to war to liberate the people of Iraq. All my experience in fostering democracy and open society has taught me that democracy cannot be imposed by military means. And, Iraq would be the last place I would chose for an experiment in introducing democracy - as the current chaos demonstrates.

Of course, Saddam was a tyrant, and of course Iraqis - and the rest of the world - can rejoice to be rid of him. But Iraqis now hate the American occupation. We stood idly by while Baghdad was ransacked. As the occupying power, we had an obligation to maintain law and order, but we failed to live up to it. If we had cared about the people of Iraq we should have had more troops available for the occupation than we needed for the invasion. We should have provided protection not only for the oil ministry but also the other ministries, museums and hospitals. Baghdad and the country's other cities were destroyed after we occupied them. When we encountered resistance, we employed methods that alienated and humiliated the population. The way we invaded homes, and the way we treated prisoners generated resentment and rage. Public opinion condemns us worldwide.

The number of flipflops and missteps committed by the Bush administration in Iraq far exceeds anything John Kerry can be accused of. First we dissolved the Iraqi army, then we tried to reconstitute it. First we tried to eliminate the Baathists, then we turned to them for help. First we installed General Jay Garner to run the country, then we gave it to Paul Bremer and when the insurgency became intractable, we installed an Iraqi government. The man we chose was a protégé of the CIA with the reputation of a strong man - a far cry from democracy. First we attacked Falluja over the objections of the Marine commander on the ground, then pulled them out when the assault was half-way through, again over his objections. "Once you commit, you got to stay committed," he said publicly. More recently, we started bombing Falluja again.

The Bush campaign is trying to put a favorable spin on it, but the situation in Iraq is dire. Much of the Western part of the country has been ceded to the insurgents. Even the so-called Green Zone (a small enclave in the center of Baghdad where Americans live and work) is subject to mortar attacks. The prospects of holding free and fair elections in January are fast receding and civil war looms. President Bush received a somber intelligence evaluation in July but he has kept it under wraps and failed to level with the electorate.

Bush's war in Iraq has done untold damage to the United States. It has impaired our military power and undermined the morale of our armed forces. Before the invasion of Iraq, we could project overwhelming power in any part of the world. We cannot do so any more because we are bogged down in Iraq. Afghanistan is slipping from our control. North Korea, Iran, Pakistan and other countries are pursuing nuclear programs with renewed vigor and many other problems remain unattended.

By invading Iraq without a second UN resolution, we violated international law. By mistreating and even torturing prisoners, we violated the Geneva conventions. President Bush has boasted that we do not need a permission slip from the international community, but our actions have endangered our security - particularly the security of our troops.

Our troops were trained to project overwhelming power. They were not trained for occupation duties. Having to fight an insurgency saps their morale. Many of our troops return from Iraq with severe trauma and other psychological disorders. Sadly, many are also physically injured. After Iraq, it will be difficult to recruit people for the armed forces and we may have to resort to conscription.

There are many other policies for which the Bush administration can be criticized but none are as important as Iraq. Iraq has cost us nearly 200 billion dollars -- an enormous sum. It could have been used much better elsewhere. The costs are going to mount because it was much easier to get into Iraq than it will be to get out of there. President Bush has been taunting John Kerry to explain how he would do things differently in Iraq. John Kerry has responded that he would have done everything differently and he would be in a better position to extricate us than the man who got us in there. But it won't be easy for him either, because we are caught in a quagmire.

It is a quagmire that many predicted. I predicted it in my book, The Bubble of American Supremacy. I was not alone: top military and diplomatic experts desperately warned the President not to invade Iraq. But he ignored their experienced advice. He suppressed the critical process. The discussion about Iraq remains stilted even during this presidential campaign because of the notion that any criticism of our Commander-in-Chief puts our troops at risk. But this is Bush's war, and he ought to be held responsible for it. It's the wrong war, fought the wrong way. Step back for a moment from the cacophony of the election campaign and reflect: who got us into this mess? In spite of his Texas swagger, George W. Bush does not qualify to serve as our Commander-in-Chief.

There is a lot more to be said on the subject and I have said it in my book, The Bubble of American Supremacy, now available in paperback. I hope you will read it. You can download the chapter on the Iraqi quagmire free from [url]www.georgesoros.com[/url]

If you find my arguments worth considering, please share this message with your friends.

I would welcome your comments at georgesoros.com . I am eager to engage in a critical discussion because the stakes are so high.
_________________________________________________________________________

George Soros was born in Budapest, Hungary on August 12, 1930. He survived the Nazi occupation of Budapest and left communist Hungary in 1947 for England, where he graduated from the London School of Economics. While a student at LSE, Mr. Soros became familiar with the work of the philosopher Karl Popper, who had a profound influence on his thinking and later on his professional and philanthropic activities.

The financier. In 1956 Mr. Soros moved to the United States, where he began to accumulate a large fortune through an international investment fund he founded and managed. Today he is Chairman of Soros Fund Management LLC.

The philanthropist. Mr. Soros has been active as a philanthropist since 1979, when he began providing funds to help black students attend Capetown University in apartheid South Africa. Today he is Chairman of the Open Society Institute and the founder of a network of philanthropic organizations active in more than 50 countries in Eastern Europe, the former Soviet Union, Africa, Latin America, Asia, and the United States. These foundations are dedicated to building and maintaining the infrastructure and institutions of an open society. In 1992, Mr. Soros founded the Central European University, with its primary campus in Budapest. In 2003 the Soros foundations network spent $474 million to support projects in education, public health, civil society development, and many other areas. Giving for 2004 is expected to remain at a similar level.

The philosopher. Mr. Soros is the author of eight books including, most recently, The Bubble of American Supremacy: The Costs of Bush's War in Iraq (revised paperback edition, PublicAffairs, September 2004). His other books include: George Soros on Globalization, 2002; The Alchemy of Finance, 1987; Opening the Soviet System, 1990; Underwriting Democracy, 1991; Soros on Soros: Staying Ahead of the Curve, 1995; The Crisis of Global Capitalism: Open Society Endangered, 1998; and Open Society: Reforming Global Capitalism, 2000. His articles and essays on politics, society, and economics regularly appear in major newspapers and magazines around the world.
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Daveraver

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 09:42 AM #2
Common sense is a quality lost on nearly 50% of America.

Great read, thanks!
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Phuturephunkshun

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 09:46 AM #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveraver
Common sense is a quality lost on nearly 50% of America.

..And our willingless to throw off the sound-byte mentality and actually read deeper...a facet of any good free thinking mode of thought.....
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Urbanjester

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 09:57 AM #4
whenever I read details about the war in iraq, or the policies of the Bush administration, I just seem to get angry. It's frustration, I think. I have trouble believing so many people can be so stupid.
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bluestar

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 09:59 AM #5
thanks for the article, interesting that he chose the WSJ, good choice IMO.
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doubledip

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 10:08 AM #6
another article for your enjoyment. this one from the Voice...

George W. Bush Ain't No Cowboy
[url]http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0439/baard.php[/url]
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djsanq

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 10:22 AM #7
It's sad to read and hear about statements such as, "Kerry can't defend us against terrorists and we can't afford to take that risk" and to have half of America eat it up, when in fact it was under George Bush and Dick Cheney that we did get attacked by terrorists and has made the world more unsafe. Where is the logic???
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boa_boy

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 12:07 PM #8
Great article
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norah

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 12:30 PM #9
yeah it was a good read.
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FREE

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 12:51 PM #10
But I thought you guys hated Wall street people ?

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Phuturephunkshun

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 12:54 PM #11
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Originally Posted by FREE
But I thought you guys hated Wall street people ?


..Who said that?..
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FREE

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 01:00 PM #12
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Originally Posted by Phuturephunkshun
..Who said that?..
After reading this board for a few years I think there's a general disdain for wealthy, capitalist types........kind of a distrust of corporate America, the government, etc.......Am I wrong ?
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Phuturephunkshun

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 01:03 PM #13
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Originally Posted by FREE
After reading this board for a few years I think there's a general disdain for wealthy, capitalist types........kind of a distrust of corporate America, the government, etc.......Am I wrong ?

..Nah, you're not really wrong..but why overgeneralize? Its almost like saying that those who rally against wall street automatically don't even make the attempt to understand the reason behind why things happen the way they do..and I honestly don't believe that even the lefties on this board are that simple minded...I dunno, maybe I spend too much time looking at the shades of gray..

But yes, you do have a point...
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347

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 01:22 PM #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by FREE
After reading this board for a few years I think there's a general disdain for wealthy, capitalist types........kind of a distrust of corporate America, the government, etc.......Am I wrong ?


soros' politics don't really fit the mold of a "wealthy capitalist"


he makes some familiar points, but i think the most important is that its now clear that bush exploited 9/11 and the public's fears over terrorism to wage a war that had nothing to do with terrorism. the american public should be pretty angry over this.
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FREE

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 01:31 PM #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 347
soros' politics don't really fit the mold of a "wealthy capitalist"


he makes some familiar points, but i think the most important is that its now clear that bush exploited 9/11 and the public's fears over terrorism to wage a war that had nothing to do with terrorism. the american public should be pretty angry over this.
I'm not questioning the content of the article.....

Phuture--I'm not "overgeneralizing"..I made an assumption based on facts....

You guys see my point......lets not mince words..if I posted an article/ad that was pro-Bush that I read off of Fox News, WSJ you'd refute the content simply based on the source .....regardless....looking forward to the debate tomorrow..........
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Phuturephunkshun

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 01:37 PM #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by FREE
I'm not questioning the content of the article.....

Phuture--I'm not "overgeneralizing"..I made an assumption based on facts....

You guys see my point......lets not mince words..if I posted an article/ad that was pro-Bush that I read off of Fox News, WSJ you'd refute the content simply based on the source .....regardless....looking forward to the debate tomorrow..........

Not necessarily..if what you posted actually had a rational point..unfortunately Fox News isn't known for its rational thinking..
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girlee

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 01:39 PM #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by FREE
I'm not questioning the content of the article.....

Phuture--I'm not "overgeneralizing"..I made an assumption based on facts....

You guys see my point......lets not mince words..if I posted an article/ad that was pro-Bush that I read off of Fox News, WSJ you'd refute the content simply based on the source .....regardless....looking forward to the debate tomorrow..........
It's an ad. Yes, the Journal published it, but he paid them to publish it. There's a big difference between ad content and editorial content. i don't get your point.
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bsb2002

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 01:41 PM #18
why do you all hate america so much?
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FREE

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 01:43 PM #19
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why do you all hate america so much?
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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 02:48 PM #20
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Originally Posted by bsb2002
why do you all hate america so much?
to question america is to love america

it will be a great day when people figure that out
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nubreedgoupie

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 05:11 PM #21
politics aside, george soros is a piece of shit opportunist money grub.

he's like the evil version of the bass brothers.
"I had the most absurd nightmare.
I was poor and no one liked me. I lost my job, I lost my house, Penelope hated me, and it was all because of this terrible, awful Negro."



The President of the United States is running against a company his opponent managed 15 years ago. A company that employees thousands of people paid by profits.

Staying on subject, what was President Obama doing 15 years ago? Running a mid-night basketball program funded by Bill Clinton.

America, the choice is yours.
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347

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 05:23 PM #22 Thumbs up
Quote:
Originally Posted by nubreedgoupie
politics aside, george soros is a piece of shit opportunist money grub.

he's like the evil version of the bass brothers.


republicans hate soros because they can't stand (or understand) how someone could be that rich and not be a conservative. they must either hate themselves or be completely crazy.

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nubreedgoupie

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 05:30 PM #23
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Originally Posted by 347
republicans hate soros because they can't stand (or understand) how someone could be that rich and not be a conservative. they must either hate themselves or be completely crazy.


nah - that's not true. i worked in the belly of the beast of wall street for years and you'd be suprised how many progressive liberals there are. think robert rubin and john corzine.
"I had the most absurd nightmare.
I was poor and no one liked me. I lost my job, I lost my house, Penelope hated me, and it was all because of this terrible, awful Negro."



The President of the United States is running against a company his opponent managed 15 years ago. A company that employees thousands of people paid by profits.

Staying on subject, what was President Obama doing 15 years ago? Running a mid-night basketball program funded by Bill Clinton.

America, the choice is yours.
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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 05:35 PM #24
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Originally Posted by Daveraver
Common sense is a quality lost on nearly 50% of America.

Great read, thanks!

you are laboring under the assumption that it's something possessed from birth

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norah

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 05:43 PM #25 Talking
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Originally Posted by jcg
you are laboring under the assumption that it's something possessed from birth


but it is!
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347

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 05:48 PM #26
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Originally Posted by nubreedgoupie
nah - that's not true. i worked in the belly of the beast of wall street for years and you'd be suprised how many progressive liberals there are. think robert rubin and john corzine.

yeah, but those dudes are a minority.

i just started working for a mutual fund and i'd say this is a pretty republican place.
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nubreedgoupie

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 06:49 PM #27
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Originally Posted by 347
yeah, but those dudes are a minority.

i just started working for a mutual fund and i'd say this is a pretty republican place.


the fact of the matter is that the financial community (at least in new york city) is populated with many jews and many jews tend to be liberals. at least that's what archie bunker told me.
"I had the most absurd nightmare.
I was poor and no one liked me. I lost my job, I lost my house, Penelope hated me, and it was all because of this terrible, awful Negro."



The President of the United States is running against a company his opponent managed 15 years ago. A company that employees thousands of people paid by profits.

Staying on subject, what was President Obama doing 15 years ago? Running a mid-night basketball program funded by Bill Clinton.

America, the choice is yours.
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nubreedgoupie

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 06:51 PM #28
sort of like the fact that many/most attorneys tend to be democrats. attorneys live off the teat of big government and lack of personal responsibilty which are the hallmarks of the democrat party.

attorneys certainly fit into your financial description of a republican.


the truth of the matter is that income and wealth no longer separate the two major parties as much as beliefs and political ideologies do.

eg - the republicans are no longer the "party of the rich" and democrats are no longer the "party of the working man".
"I had the most absurd nightmare.
I was poor and no one liked me. I lost my job, I lost my house, Penelope hated me, and it was all because of this terrible, awful Negro."



The President of the United States is running against a company his opponent managed 15 years ago. A company that employees thousands of people paid by profits.

Staying on subject, what was President Obama doing 15 years ago? Running a mid-night basketball program funded by Bill Clinton.

America, the choice is yours.
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T.C.

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 07:14 PM #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nubreedgoupie
sort of like the fact that many/most attorneys tend to be democrats. attorneys live off the teat of big government and lack of personal responsibilty which are the hallmarks of the democrat party.

attorneys certainly fit into your financial description of a republican.


the truth of the matter is that income and wealth no longer separate the two major parties as much as beliefs and political ideologies do.

eg - the republicans are no longer the "party of the rich" and democrats are no longer the "party of the working man".
Right, because huge corporations like Wal-Mart who receive huge government subsidies to build stores that pay the majority of their workers far less than they need to live on, which causes the taxpayers to contribute via welfare, food stamps, etc., and refuse to let their workers form labor unions to negotiate for fair employment conditions, don't suck on the government teat at all...and contribute SO much to the local communities.

But I will agree with you on your point that the democrats are no longer the "party of the working man." Pity that the average working man (and even worse, the unions and organizations such as the Sierra Club that should act as watchguards for their interests) can't realize this.
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GLauren

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Unread Wednesday, Sep 29th 2004, 11:53 PM #30
there are many Liberal Elitist Democrats out there (Kerry being one of them, i'll just call them Limousine Liberals) these days that have resorted to drilling into the head of the working man that they're the victim of class warfare, i.e. the gap between rich and poor.

it's a psychology of envy and being pissed off at the other guy for being more succesful than you are, instead of striving to be succesful on your own.

not what America should be about. but the Dems prey on this.

America was built on the "do what you gotta do, everyone for themselves" mentality.

for instance, immigrants don't come here to sit on their ass and get welfare checks. (at least not most of them lol)

they come here to work and make money.

on the flip side, when immigrants to come to a country like Germany or Sweden, they know they don't have to do JACK SHIT for the remainder of their existence and they'll get an apartment and a nominal check every month on which to buy food.

this is why the economies in BOTH of those countries is going to shit right now, because people who actually DO work and make money in those countries just feed it to their government. you work your ass off and 60% of your check goes to some putz who can't work cause he doesn't wanna learn German.

and ironically, they both use to be the ideal models of social-democratic states.

especially Sweden.
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Last edited by GLauren; Thursday, Sep 30th 2004 at 12:01 AM..
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